Where Were You When I Wanted .EU: TM 131
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- Facebook Says Zuckerberg Won’t Give Evidence to U.K. Lawmakers
- Netflix estimated to be watched in over 500,000 Irish homes
- The BBC says it's being squeezed out by Netflix and Amazon
- Europe dumps 300,000 UK-owned .EU domains into the Brexit bin
- Your emails and questions answered!
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- EXTRA STORY: Google is killing yet another service (and launching a weird replacement)
- EXTRA STORY: Parents blame their kids' slipping school grades on crap internet
- Short section about emails to the show
- Which regulator should we model a social media regulator after?
- Extended discussion around BBC TV archive for iPlayer
- Outtakes and more!
Please support us on Patreon at www.patreon.com/uktech for access to our exclusive ad-free extended version of the show, live-streaming, access to Discord member’s club, weekly columns from Nate, higher quality MP3s, and much more.
This week, facebook CEO, Mark Zuckerberg has said he will not appear before a UK parliamentary committee to give evidence in the wake of allegation that inflammation on millions of its users was misused. Now this is according to me this week because I was covering this for Bloomberg, Damien Collins. He's the head of the committee itself.
01:37 Also investigating the impact of social media on recent elections, not just those in Britain had invited Zuckerberg to answer for what he called a catastrophic failure of process. Do you remember that name?
01:48 Uh, yes. In data day, it was only last week.
01:51 It was, but I know how your brain gets a little foggy around this time of year. Um, he does seem to come and Zuckerberg replied in the form of a letter which was delivered to Colin's saying that he is last one who has cedia deputies to attend. Instead, I was covering the hearing, actually the one that, uh, was being held this week, whether we're gathering evidence from whistleblower Wiley, which lasted for hours incidentally, and don't end up having to cover for our parliamentary committee hearing, but that is what I do, um, you know, as part of my day job. But during that, Colin's had almost made fun of the CEO. He came across as quite jocular to me almost joking that he was just going to send one of these juniors. Um, but he did also say he was still going to ask Zuckerberg to appear. Now to me, this is frankly embarrassing for facebook.
02:44 I, in my personal opinion, and I was, I went to, I was on Bloomberg TV week before last. It was before sucker Berg had responded. But after Colin's had asked him to appear and I'd said the anything short of Zuckerberg appearing before the committee would just like a PR disaster. And that's exactly what's happening. He's agreed to appear in front of a US congressional committee hearing I believe in, in the US, which will be very awkward because, you know, I know things like have the best speaker under intense pressure and inserts certainly contributing probably to why he doesn't want to do so in Britain. Um, but this just looks like he's hiding behind a deputy, don't you think?
03:26 Yeah, I see him. They don't have the option of a demanding he awry he a payer the name or anything? No, because he's not a British citizen. Um, that's, that's key
03:43 here. So they can, they can ask, you know, and if anything moved into sort of criminal territory than obviously, um, that can be warrants out, but you know, they, they can't force him to appear at this point.
03:56 They can just ask repeatedly. This is a bit rude, isn't it, to, you know, because essentially he's, if he annoys them enough, they'll legislate, won't they? And he does not want that.
04:08 I spend a lot of calls to legislate for better regulation of social media companies in, in the UK. This was, this was, this also came up this week actually, that we should have a more robust body for, um, for, you know, appeals processes and oversight, essentially creating a social media for, sorry, a and ipsos the press regulation or not regulation board that you know, that the independent body that oversees the press newspapers or magazines. I'm, it was Margot James, one of the politicians in dcs actually that had, had posited this and we did a story about it. In fact, I'm at Bloomberg, but you know, that's, that's down the line at the moment. We've still got to sort out what exactly facebook's going to do to defend itself neck, uh, in the discord in the chat room light right now is saying it's a disgrace. He CEO of one of the biggest companies in the world, the more people use than any other company.
05:03 He can't. He can't front up. And I agree. And I, I honestly, I honestly think that I'm honestly think that that's, that's how it's going to be seeing over here, this side of the pond. You've got this giant company that's got 2,000,000,000 users, are over 2,000,000,000 users, you know, and a giant percentage of the UK population, um, this is centered on Cambridge analytica and a lot of stuff that's been happening here in, in Britain with Alexander Nix and friends. And yet he won't come in a pair and I think he's going to get, I think he's going to get quite a bit of stick for that on this side of the pond. I have to say.
05:41 Well, I mean, I, I just think it's the least you could do really as a way of saying, look, OK, we accept that um, you know, we've, we've, we've made a big mistake here and we were going to correct it. And here's how. I mean they will give him a pretty big time. But sorry, I'm pretty hard time, I would imagine
05:58 and I can see why he would think it would be a bad idea to a pair as he'll make himself look kind of stupid I think. But even so, he should've been doing it. Really was asking in the, um, in the chat room, did I mean the independent press complaints commissioned? No, I mean it. So, which is the independent press standards organization. I think that's what it stands for. Um, it was, it was suggested that we had one for social media companies, you know, not just in the wake of what's happening with facebook right now, but also relating to hate speech abuse, online, trolling, all that kind of stuff and how if these companies are not able to regulate themselves and the suggestion is that they cannot, at least not to the standards of the British government. Um, then someone needs to do it for them and we have someone that does that for newspapers and magazines and we don't, for social media who are largely these days, if anything more influential, at least in terms of spreading and disseminating information and there's no regulatory oversight. So that may well be something that, that changes. And then of course we've got the issue of Europe that's 500,000,000 people in Europe and it's very, very likely that regulators over the egg. And I want to speak to Zuckerberg as well. So this is a mess in my opinion. It's a PR mess probably waiting to get worse before it gets better. But yes, let us know any thoughts you have on the issue. Hello. At Tech Podcast Dot u k?
07:37 And we're going to talk about islands, Republican political in the context of Netflix. And that is because more than two in five or 42 percent of Irish households now subscribed to Netflix according to the results of commerce. [inaudible] island
07:58 2017. Did you catch that deep report in? I didn't know. Well, don't worry. The Irish Times did. And it wrote up that 42 percent of islands, one point two, 4,000,000 fixed residential broadband subscriptions were to be used to access Netflix, which is in line with the survey sample that would suggest that about 521,000 people in a, in, in the Republic of Ireland that have Netflix, which is staggering, really is. And I this finger on its own and we're using this as a little bit of a segue into the next. Um, is there a bigger story about Netflix? But I looked at what the current figures are for the UK. I didn't find a consistent standard, but I looked at statista which said that there are now 22 point 7,000,000 households in the UK, um, with fixed line broadband and then separately, according to Bob, the broadcast research board, there's now eight point 1,000,000 in the UK that have netflix subscriptions.
08:57 So I did the maths that suggests that Netflix is in 36 percent of homes in the UK. So a little under the Republic of Ireland has, although by comparison in the US, the [inaudible] is about 54 percent of households, so much, much wider present, a penetration and obviously in a larger, much larger market to um, but I thought this was interesting because it suggests that in the Republic of Ireland, I'm missing something that we here in the UK do not the BBC Iplayer and the BBC says it's being squeezed out by Netflix and Amazon. It is the, uh, the I play a tooth paste being squeezed or disclose. And if you like, with intense thumb pressure, just getting that last little bit of Minty entertainment out of the, out of the nozzle, that's because this story is that the BBC has released the second annual report since it's new charter was established and the broadcaster has painted a rather bleak picture for itself.
09:57 According to engadget this week, it says it's being squeezed out to the market by quote, a small number of us based media giants with extraordinary creative and financial firepower. Their business models and huge budgets mean we are increasingly being squeezed out of an evermore competitive environment. British creativity and British content are now under real threat. Uh, it says in this, uh, in a conclusion to the report that this year it's going to see further improvements for AIPLA, or we're going to see further improvements for AIPLA, including enhancements to the user experience, more personalization, more live content. And it says, quote, we continue to look at the, at increasing the availability of some content. Now, before we move to the radio side of this, I don't really think that the reason Netflix is potentially squeezing out the BBC Iplayer is anything to do with a lack of personalization or user experience.
10:54 I think it is highly down to content, which was the last point that they raised here and it strikes me that the BBC is sitting on a gold mine, you know, it's archive and it has been dripping that out onto the platform, but stuff disappears up to 30 days largely because it's a catch-up service and it's sitting on decades, decades of programming that, that could, that could be made available on the player for streaming and Steven huxtable and in the live chat saying right now as well, um, that there's rights issues and, and absolutely there are rights issues, but you know, there's got to be a work around to this, you know, they're sitting on this archive of stuff. There's got to be a large portion of it that can be made available. All the rights issues can be. Well, they, they could, they could start negotiating better deals and start thinking about tv as an on demand service. So for example, there is nothing stopping
11:54 them from saying that they want to renegotiate the deal as they have with their commercial partners for production companies and the like and say, look, you know, once, once we've commissioned a program, um, it's essentially ours to put on it player in perpetuity, but they've got to somehow convince, uh, you know, the, the providers of that content, that that's an acceptable idea. But that's what Netflix does it, I mean, Netflix isn't entirely involved in all of the, obviously there are a lot of things on Netflix that are netflix originals, but it also does, do deals with third parties and I imagine a lot of those shows, whilst they are badged as Netflix originals will have been made by an independent production company. Um, so I kind of feel like it's perhaps a negotiating problem for the BBC here, that they're not, they're not, they're, they're treating doctor on demand as they have always treated broadcasts.
12:49 And that's not the way the world works anymore. Our struggles in the, in the live chat right now also highlights that it's a problem with the kid stuff as well, and that you go on Netflix and there's hundreds of episodes that you want to watch and Amazon as well. Um, but always very few on the BBC plagues. A lot of it is sort of, it's contained within this 30 day catch up window. But I was thinking, you know, for example, there are shows that the BBC owns the rights to like Dragon's Den, Dragon's den they do sell, doesn't, doesn't own the rights to the Dragon's den, it's Sony, it's like a production deal. So they have a certain amount of uh, they get a certain amount of time. It might be a year or whatever, or 30 days. And that's it. The thing is there are very few programs because the dragon's den is, some is based on some.
13:33 Yeah, it's an more equipment from Japan I think, or something going to say, I thought it was Japan. Um, yeah, it's, it's, I don't know why it's ended up being Sony, but um, yeah, it's, it's difficult. Uh, those are the, that is the problem. It's this started decades ago with the BBC where they were, you know, very much forced into a situation where they will need to commission a lot of external stuff. And BBC production was a largely shut down. It was, it was considered too, uh, too disruptive to the industry. So they said, well, you'll have to commission in now. And with that comes the fact that commissioned programs retain all the rights to which are retained by the original company that made them, uh, if there are very few BBC formats which are owned wholly owned doctor who top gear, those are some of them.
14:23 Um, but most of the things like things like spooks, I'm always external companies and they take those ideas at the BBC and pitch them. So it's not like the BBC comes up with ideas and then sort of farms the production out. Well, I mean dragon's den x by example. I've just been looking this up because I didn't actually plan on going down this rabbit hole, partly because it turns out, I don't know all the information here, but it says, you know, the format is owned by Sony pictures, but it's based on the Japanese series and
14:52 has been produced by BBC, Manchester since its first, since you first broadcast.
14:57 The contract would have been, um, I'm in dragon's den started off, the ipad was introduced so it would've been, it would've been in the contract, but the contract would say something like, you will give us the rights to show the program for 30 days and there will be a number of repeat repeat plays that will have rights to, uh, but you would not be able to show an episode of season one of Dragon's den now on TV. It would be absolutely impossible. They'd have to rebuy a rights for that season. So a lot of those things will never be seen again on TV anyway. Uh, they go into Sony's archive and it would then be able to sell them later on to Netflix. You can see examples of that on Netflix where some that was at the BBC does, this is another point to make the BBC sales a lot of its own content and netflix where it probably shouldn't be doing that. It should be saying here are all the episodes of top gear on I player rather than here are, you know, here are all the episodes on Netflix. That makes no sense. But again, I think that's complicated slightly by the fact that BBC worldwide pays a lot of money to make top gear. The BBC, his own production budget can't sustain top gear, so therefore the worldwide has to get involved and it wants a piece of the action in that piece of the action is global TV rights and streaming. So yeah. What can you say?
16:19 Well, I can just say that I'm both. I'm just annoyed. I mean you could buy the first c, the first series of Dragon's Den, first couple on, on DVD because BBC release those, but you can't buy to my knowledge any of the rest of them and you can't stream them anyway. And I've looked on itunes
16:39 by those because they're not. So
16:44 this is my, this is my point, right? And this is maybe this is the challenge that the BBC could try and overcome some. How is the, this is content that exists that's good. Um, but he's completely unavailable anywhere to buy other than, you know, obviously on the know tolerant services and youtube probably and things like that. It doesn't exist. So, you know, this is the kind of thing that surely the BBC, if it wants to be this home for British content, it needs to be pulling in a much larger amounts of this material and making it available even if it's. Even if it costs, you know, perhaps perhaps this whole idea of a commercial, it has some legs if it would allow this kind of thing to happen and really rival the likes of Netflix. But it changes the model entirely from being a catch-up service for UK license fee pairs to a destination in its own right up against the likes of Amazon and Netflix. But that's, I don't see any other way around it
17:40 now. There is no, uh, UN also, you've got to remember that the BBC has operated like this for years with dvds, the DVD releases of things we're also catastrophic need, badly managed. Um, and again, it comes down partly to rights, um, and partly to the fact that a lot of the time it costs too much to make a DVD so they just don't bother. Um, and then those programs get put in a type storage facility somewhere. They probably, I don't even know if the BBC keeps on all those third party productions, they may be, they may feel that it's not their job and they must rest with the production companies. So not only have you got all the issues with the rights themselves, but you've also then got to track down the copy of the program and you've got probably going to have to pay some money to get that out of an archive somewhere or something. You know, it just gets completely and utterly impossible to manage. And that's why I suspect it doesn't happen. It's not a lack of will.
18:35 I don't believe at all. It's the lack of, well I think the well is, is very much there. It's, it's the financial obligation and the, you know, the perhaps some restrictions on the imposed by the charter and by the BBC trust and things like that, which is obviously not something that Netflix has to worry too much about. I know obviously the fact that it's, it's free at the point of view at least it's not something that people feel like they're signing up for. Um, but the, the chat rooms very active at the moment and talking a lot about radio and podcasts and the BBC has as part of this study or not study as such, it's a report isn't it? Suggested to revamp a complete revamp of its. I play a radio platform to fold in a huge, huge library of podcasts to now this again, to me it feels like an interesting opportunity to add other podcasts. I don't know, maybe UK focus technology shows, um, if they wanted to, if they want it to be a bigger destination for audio as well. I'm not suggesting they create something to rival the itunes podcast library, but if you're a home for British, specifically British audio, then I could see that being a very interesting opportunity to, to become a destination for that kind of stuff. Otherwise, everything gets us very homogenous. And, and you know, the differences between the platforms have a very murky.
19:55 It just, it's everything about it is, is like it's two sides fighting and it causes a problem and it means that the general public is not getting as good a deal out of it as they should be and it's all down to, you know, the fact that everyone complains constantly about the BBC, including other broadcasters.
20:15 Well, if you have a complaint or a compliment about the BBC, um, whether or not you're at one of the other broadcasters, then let us know. Hello Tech podcast dot UK.
20:33 let's talk about dumping in stamps. Talk about dumps because according to a headline on the register this week, Europe dumps 300,000 to UK, EU domains into the brexit. Ben, I love to this headline, clunky and inelegant, but kind of fun. Um, I'm, the story follows in an official statement those day the European Commission announced it will cancel all 300,000 domains under the top under the adult you top level domain that have a UK registered following, obviously Britain's eventual departure from the EU. This is all according to the register still. Now, this means that if, if a UK person, I, you or me or a business owns a dot web address, they will no longer be able to renew them, but no one will be able to sign up for a new one, a toll. And there is suggestion that current ones may stop working. The moment Britain leaves the EU with no right to appeal. What happened according to this document, well, there is a bit not because rather too low down in the registered article for my, in my journalistic opinion is that there's a glimmer of hope for these individuals who may be suffering from this and that the EU announcement does, does note that it's decree is subject to any transitional arrangement that may be contained in a possible withdrawal agreement. Meaning essentially it could foam paws for brexit deal as agreed by Theresa May and friends.
21:58 I can imagine them bothering that with that.
22:01 Historically, my faith in the technological abilities of the government has been not good, not good, but also I just don't think it's that much of a priority. That's the other problem. And unless somebody can slack an economic cost to not doing this, then I don't see this being a priority, but I imagine it's one of these things that may not get agreed upon at the time and it gets agreed slightly after the fact and possibly old could be saved, but if not, I mean this is a real pain in his great business probably for, um, people in the business of web services really directs things like that. It's not good for the registries that exists to sell this domain.
22:42 What I would also say that I, I suspect that unless they're forced to do it, they wouldn't kick anyone off. I think that definitely may stop people from renewing and I think that's absolutely reasonable. I don't see why you should be able to buy or renew you domain if you're not in the EU,
22:57 but it's the whole point of the year. So it's, it's, that's how this is meant to work and, and certainly on an individual basis, it's probably not a great deal of scrutiny going into that, but if you are a very large corporation, you probably have to be quite careful about how you tread in that regard, but it's just another, it's another unknown and the brexit process, but if somebody is aware of having a Dottie you address in the UK, then it might be something you want to look into or raise with your, with your business. Um, if you, if you care to do so. And if you are affected, I think it might be affected by this. We'd be very interested in hearing about it and hearing about how you could maybe address it and it's, do send that to us at hello at tech podcast dot UK. Not Dot Edu.
23:46 Yeah, and let's step into our news bag shall way rummage around. See what we can find in here. We've got one for Neil. Here's our new newest patron. Welcome Neil and thanks for this email and this is a great email and this is one that I know that one of our regulars, Richard Taylor will probably have an opinion on. He says, hi, nate and n just curious on what your thoughts are. I currently live in a narrow boat on a narrow boat and therefore have no access to [inaudible] broadband, so I have the top sim only deal with three which gives me unlimited everything except tether data. I only get 30 gigabytes to overcome this. I put my Sim card into an old android phone and run an APP to hide my tethered usage by current data usage is about a hundred and 2,250 gigabytes per month. I would pay a bit extra unlimited tethering if I could, but as far as I'm aware this is an option with the network and I think I would have usage limitations with mobile broadband. Just curious on your thoughts and be doing this both morally and legally. I don't know if I'm breaking any laws doing this or if the network's just frowned upon it. Ps, the Cheyenne and just subscribed to Pedro. Thank you very much, Neil, both for the email and the patronage in. What's your thoughts on this?
24:57 No, they're not breaking any laws, but I mean morally, I guess you could argue it's even then they're just not paying attention properly are they? If you can, you can circumvent that with a single app then ultimately then they don't really. They're not that serious about preventing it. Oh, they, um, yeah. I mean I think, um, I, I have a lot sympathy. I think it will be much more realistic for companies to offer a large amount of data for, for users who need it. Um, you know, and there are lots of people who rely on, for Ge as it stands, it's generally unaffordable, uh, to have a very large amount of data, particularly for tethering. I also get 30 gigs in three. Yeah, because that's, I think that standard is only to offer that and nothing more. But yeah, if you can get away with it, I'm all for it.
25:50 I would, I would support that too to a large extent because I don't think a hundred and 2,250 gigabytes per month is actually that much data. Um, I mean I've certainly, I remember when I went to weigh in if that was my, my mini moon are sort of first honeymoon straight up to the wedding last year we were in a cottage in Wales that had, you know, a new internet so bad as to be unusable. And so we were tethering for the whole time and I think we, we talked about it on the podcast at the time. In fact I used something like 90 gigabytes or something over that period and admittedly we were uploading a lot of pictures but we weren't using it for things like bit torrent or downloading multiple seasons of TV shows. We were using it for what we actively needed at the time.
26:37 So I could tell they believe a hundred and 2,250 gig per month is fine. And on top of that you've got unlimited data on your phone. There's nothing stopping you on your phone leaving Netflix streaming 24 hours a day for the entirety of the month and you'd probably easily hit that figure so they're not stopping. You're using the data they put in to prevent people using it as a replacement for fixed line broadband and using up a terabyte a month. I'm fucked. I'm just looking at my usage figures now because I'm currently doing a restore on my icloud drive to re download stuff and since about 12:00 today I've used [inaudible] gigabytes of data on my fiber optic connection in six hours. So that's why they don't want you using unlimited gatherings for people like me, streaming data, amount of data in half a day. So I think a hundred and 20 [inaudible] is perfectly fine and he's certainly not breaking any laws. You might be in breach of a contract, but the worst they'll do is cancel and get you to pay up for the rest of it. I think you'd probably find is my opinion. Anyone else having this, uh, this total have alternatives that we could present to nail? Do, let us know. Hello at Tech podcast dot U K, Mr Maurice, do you want to take this next email from giles?
27:51 Love the show, but I thought you and missed a couple of important details on the Uber crash story. I've also seen the video. I don't think he gives an accurate description of what the human driver would have seen because the video has dynamic ranges. So Paul, it gives a false impression that the driver can only see the pool of light cast by the dept headlamps with much of the scene inclusion with skyping features matte black matte. The human driver should've used full beans if the row was unlit, but it was not paying proper attention to the road because the car had not given them enough to do so. The point where they were only occasionally glancing up at the road in a normal car, the driver would have seen, would that have had the headlamps on, um, it would have made them easier for them to see the pedestrian and for the pedestrian to see them avoiding the accident altogether.
28:34 I've heard several stories about the quality of Uber Self driving system over recent months. And I'm not surprised this accident is down to them while I look forward to the widespread adoption of driverless technology that needs to be appropriate checks in place before driving, uh, systems allow, at least on the roads, this could include a driving test based simulation data, uh, for existing captures that proves the system is many times safer than a human reckless experimentation on public roads or destroy competence in this technology. Kind regards giles. I mean, I, I agree with that. Obviously, you know, the, the, these sort of things when they go wrong are catastrophic for the wider market.
29:11 Yeah, I agree. And it is, it is something that we, we didn't really think about because if you are, if you're taking a photograph of a scene, a very, very high contrast ct, which this very much was at the extreme end of you had very bright spot on the floor where the, where the light is, the design of, of cameras, unless they hdr, the processing and HDR, they're having to underexpose the scene in order for that bright bit, which it thinks you want to see, um, you know, to remain visible. And in an in focus, whereas if it was a, a bright scene where the human eye, you would, you would see more detail perhaps. I think that's what Joel is, is, is getting up.
29:51 Yeah. See Point. Um, I, W I, I'm not going to blame anyone for the accident. I, it's, it's too difficult really. Um, and it's not for us to do that kind of thing. But uh, you know, I have some sympathy. I don't know. I don't know where the main beam would've helped a. I feel like this was a very, very odd accident and the kind of one of those things that were, these set of circumstances created a situation that probably wouldn't happen a lot. Um, but you know, uh, I, I can't disagree with most of it. I, you know, we, we have to make sure that these systems are better and can save more lives than having humans driving would.
30:33 Well, thanks again Charles for the great mail and if anyone has any comments on that message or the topic of costs to do, let us know. Hello. At Tech podcast dot UK. We did have a long email from, from Ross, which we're going to get to next week because we had basically too much, uh, too much, uh, to discuss this week, but thank you russ. We'll get, we'll get to you next week. Let's check in with Tom Narrative daily tech news show and find out what's been going on this week in the wider world of tech.
31:01 Thanks you all. This week on daily tech news show, we try to understand the regulation of crypto currencies. Try to understand apple's attempt to break back into the education market, discuss whether the swing to the cloud and the edge will ever swing back on premise, dig a little into Microsoft and reorganization and it's Microsoft three 65 subscription service and discuss space tech with a round table of people who have actually worked or are working in the industry. All that and much more daily tech news show.com.
31:27 Thank you Tom. New Space. Hey, actually, I wonder how long before we need a daily space news show.
31:38 Why not have one now? I mean, I'm not like there's a lack of news from space.
31:43 No, although I always find the concept of news from space being so interesting is like when they discover a quote unquote new dinosaur. It's not really a new dinosaur is a new discovery, but it's not a new dinosaur is it?
31:55 Sure. I think you just have to use normal English to make it, you know, possible for people to understand what they're going on about.
32:03 Yeah. Like when they talk about a new, uh, a new Supernova, like the superhero that probably happened millions of years ago. So it's not new
32:12 nearly like criticizing people for uh, you know, claiming the peanut is a not when in fact it isn't or not
32:21 you're a nut. Um, but yes, go listen to this week about the new ipad. We're going to cover that as well next week because I'm eating apple on Wednesday to talk to them about it, use it, get one, and also talked to the head of European education. So I sort of felt, you know, you guys listen to this show, you know, apple's a new ipad, you don't
32:40 need me to recount that, but we will do a bit of actual hands-on stuff. And what I learned about the sort of priorities here in the UK, next week's any questions about that, do send them a cost to the usual address. Hello, at Tech podcast dot UK. Well, um, that's going to do it for this week's show. I'm do send any comments, always the usual address that you can follow us on twitter at text message, almost hitting 600 followers on that, which is fantastic. And thank you of course to all beautiful patrons for supporting us every week. Patriot [inaudible] forward slash UK tech. And thanks to our patrons who have joined us this week in the chat room, had a buzzing chat room with many, many people listening live this week. It's great fun. So thanks everyone for joining us. I'm Nick Gusman. I know is your first time listening to his life. And so thanks for listening and for joining in chatting to while we've been recording. It's fantastic. I'm in. I will see you next week. You show will nights I show. Well